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A conversation about Gear skipping


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Hi everyone! this is my first forum post so please bear with me if it looks kinda rough, I wanted to talk about an issue that I know has been around for a long time but I feel like now more than ever it's becoming more important to address it. Gear-Skipping, we've all done it at some point so please don't see this as me trying to mock the way that you play the game but I feel like not enough people talk about how much of a bad practice it is and the people who do try and talk about it get drowned out by a lot of experienced players promoting gear-skipping.

by the end of this post, I'm hoping both experienced, new and returning players will realize why gear skipping is so bad and why a lot of people who gear skip on c:c or Official closers end up dropping the game in a week or 2.

So why is gear skipping bad?

By gear skipping and rushing your TCP not only do you:

  • Hit a progression wall faster 
  • you also probably struggle to solo bosses that someone who didn't gear skip can solo
  • you also miss out on the learning experience of how to attain a certain gear set.

Take it from me I used to be a big gear skipper for literal years until I was finally told how to do stuff properly and now I have been having the most fun with the game than I ever had in the almost 4 years accumulative time I've been playing closers and it's only just now that it clicked and I have plenty of people to thank but the main one I have to thank is Chiharu if it wasn't for her guide and also her offering her advice on how to gear properly I probably no, in fact, I Would have done what I always did and gear skipped and then eventually dropped the game again. Because also closers is a grindy game we all know this even for people who don't gear skip its a pain in the fucking ass especially when you get to acquiring Asmo gear it's a long process but honestly the payout at the end when you see yourself organically getting stronger and being able to solo a boss you couldn't before is the best feeling in the world I think.

I also understand it from a new and returning players point of view I understand why people do it, you wanna be able to do the new content and experience all the cool stuff players who have been playing for a long time are currently doing, and I respect that but I have to ask what is better? being able to enter a new raid but not being able to damage it at all and also being so fragile that if a boss breathes in your direction you instantly die. Or would you rather enter a raid that you can contribute towards damage-wise and you won't die so much in?

Why is gear skipping more of a problem now?

Simple. Raids now are more reliant on all members in the raid group knowing what to do and being able to contribute damage-wise. this is not Tiamat or purification or even bb (Beelzebub) anymore. Closers now purposefully design their raids to punish people for not being prepared and the problem is all the players in the group receive the punishment. Just as a quick example ill talk about Lorelei one of her phases is a DPS Check. all 4 Clones need to be killed to pass the phase so that EVERYONE doesn't get KILLED. Or a more recent example is the Belphegor core cube phase if everyone doesn't put the cube in the right spot EVERYONE even the ones who did it correctly get killed.

and as an honorable mention I'm gonna show yall a quick screenshot of essentially why a lot of high TCP players kick people out of their parties:

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So again not only does gear skipping leave you at a disadvantage from a damage point of view but also from a knowledge point of view. Don't get me wrong I watched guides for asmo v1 before I did it for the first time and when I did it I still messed up in places but the difference is I had an IDEA of what to do especially for the conditional damage shields (Back Attack, Aerial) so many people don't know how to break those shields. They never took time to learn because they are trying to rush to hit "endgame" but if I'm completely honest you may have reds and have 15 million TCP but if you haven't got the knowledge you won't be able to use that gear effectively.

I've Gear skipped and I want to fix it how do I?

Hopefully, now that you've read me rambling you've decided that maybe I've got a point and now you want to fix your character or characters. Fortunately, while it may take a while it should be easy to fix you just gotta power through. It's hard for me to say What exactly you should do since I would need to see your gear to tell you exactly what you need but you just need to go back and get what you skipped. I will link a guide made by Chiharu as that's what I've personally been following its got pictures of where you should be gear wise in order and its constantly being updated and changed to make sure it has the most up to date information (ty Chi <3)

GUIDE: https://docs.google.com/document/d/15IJBH8lSIBcAVIUUL4LZRjkJlSKJBJX8_xtCwXio1GI/edit?usp=sharing

Conclusion

I don't think there is much else for me to say just that if you do decide to gear skip after reading all this that's completely fine and ill respect that decision but please do not be surprised if you face being kicked from parties and just overall struggle to progress because of said decision but regardless of that I wish you the best of luck!

if any of yall want to talk bout what I've written and maybe want some advice on how to fix your setup I'm sure there are plenty of people willing to help and I'm in The C:C discord too so feel free to drop me a ping and we can chat.

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Posted (edited)

It's honestly difficult now with new updates to not skip equipment. Main reason is due to returning/new player benefits. This is going to cause many players to skip through content. However, they can always make another character and start from scratch there but I honestly don't think people are going to go through that since if you literally have the benefits right in front of you, why not skip at all? 

Personally, I do think players shouldn't skip the gear progression despite it taking a long time to do so. Regardless, there's players that wish to just get things done and others who just want to play for fun and take it slow. Someone may be new to the game and not realize that they're skipping equipment progression, either! It's almost impossible to avoid since players that come to the game for the first time, might end up thinking to themselves that this is just usually how everything works towards gear equipment. As much as we'd like them to not skip, there's always going to be a clueless player out there that doesn't interact with the community and decides to just get all the benefits blindly. With more content coming out, it's only going to get even worse from there. 

Let's be honest though, sometimes players wouldn't want to spend so much time on gear progression when all the rewards are right in front of them. I understand your point of view, gearing from scratch is definitely entertaining! I'm even having an upcoming livestream related to this specifically that's gearing from scratch. Just, try not to blame the new or even returning players because due to their lack of experience, those players would not understand. Remember that low TCP doesn't also mean to automatically kick them from raid, could be an alternate character or a player that actually knows what to do. As long as you have enough carries, you can always bring a small player or 2.

Once they decide to create their next character, that's usually when their real experiences begin unless they stacked upon materials over time

Edited by Miia
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45 minutes ago, Miia said:

It's honestly difficult now with new updates to not skip equipment. Main reason is due to returning/new player benefits. This is going to cause many players to skip through content. However, they can always make another character and start from scratch there but I honestly don't think people are going to go through that since if you literally have the benefits right in front of you, why not skip at all? 

Personally, I do think players shouldn't skip the gear progression despite it taking a long time to do so. Regardless, there's players that wish to just get things done and others who just want to play for fun and take it slow. Someone may be new to the game and not realize that they're skipping equipment progression, either! It's almost impossible to avoid since players that come to the game for the first time, might end up thinking to themselves that this is just usually how everything works towards gear equipment. As much as we'd like them to not skip, there's always going to be a clueless player out there that doesn't interact with the community and decides to just get all the benefits blindly. With more content coming out, it's only going to get even worse from there. 

Let's be honest though, sometimes players wouldn't want to spend so much time on gear progression when all the rewards are right in front of them. I understand your point of view, gearing from scratch is definitely entertaining! I'm even having an upcoming livestream related to this specifically that's gearing from scratch. Just, try not to blame the new or even returning players because due to their lack of experience, those players would not understand. Remember that low TCP doesn't also mean to automatically kick them from raid, could be an alternate character or a player that actually knows what to do. As long as you have enough carries, you can always bring a small player or 2.

Once they decide to create their next character, that's usually when their real experiences begin unless they stacked upon materials over time

Try not to take any offense to what I'm about to say, ok? I agree with most of what you're saying because it can't be helped.

 

I kind of see the reason why C:C decided to add that system. It's a way to get players to come back to the game. I get that part.

It's the new players part where there's a con. You literally pointed it out that people who are new are blindly grabbing rewards from the system so it's no wonder they don't know how to gear and it's why every now and then, you'll see those same new players in global chat asking the same question "How do you get gear?", "How do you do this?", "Guys, what do I do now? I'm __m TCP."

People in global, the ones who aren't new, are the main ones encouraging gear skipping. That's one of the main issues. You shouldn't really do that because you never know if a person is new or not, but like you said, it can't be helped. People are going to do it regardless.

He wasn't trying to blame people, he was literally just stating his point of view on the topic.

My screenshot, I can explain why the screenshot even exist. At the bottom, it goes right back to the topic at hand. Gear skipping, right? Yes, you can find people who are on alts and they know what to do, but most of the time, you'll find people who are low TCP and don't know what to do so it makes the run longer. I feel like it's mainly because they don't watch videos on how to do raid and so they want to go in blind. I understand that part but I would rather get someone who they can count on to take them in the raid and teach them. Not a random party. They're going to be a burden in a random party, especially if they don't know mechanics.

He also said something along the lines of "if you still choose to skip gear, I wish you the best of luck". He was also trying to be fair if you could tell. Personally, I'm highly against it, but if people claim to know what they're doing, I let them do them. I just put out my guides and info since I actually want to help people and then go on about my business. Only reason I started to speak up about it because I see that gear skipping is getting out of hand and I very often talk about it or mention it because it is becoming a problem. You may not deal with it, but I do. I know, I chose to help people and I chose to carry, but the same people are like.....60-70% of the people that pop up in my raids so it makes it harder for me to do what I love to do.

That's all I have to say.

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Posted (edited)

@Chiharu

Just as much as I do, I enjoy helping others as well! Not trying to start anything, just stating my point of view in this whole topic.

As long as the carry # is enough, things should go okay - plus I'm sure after raid and such, the person would want to know what to do exactly or before raid begins. But yes, due to the new content coming in, it's obviously going to be harder to not skip the gearing process xD...

Can't control people encouraging the gear skipping either - after all, we're individuals and that person can decide on what to do

Edited by Miia
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5 minutes ago, Miia said:

Can't control people encouraging the gear skipping either - after all, we're individuals and that person can decide on what to do

I agree with that but I do still think it would be nice to make newer players aware of why gear skipping may not be the best idea which was my original reason to write out that post. if after letting them know why gear skipping ain't a good idea they still decide to do it? that's completely fine and I wish them the best of luck 

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4 minutes ago, Enii said:

I agree with that but I do still think it would be nice to make newer players aware of why gear skipping may not be the best idea which was my original reason to write out that post. if after letting them know why gear skipping ain't a good idea they still decide to do it? that's completely fine and I wish them the best of luck 

Agreed!

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11 minutes ago, Miia said:

As long as the carry # is enough, things should go okay - plus I'm sure after raid and such, the person would want to know what to do exactly or before raid begins.

and in response to this while yes people who gear skip can ask for carries to do content they may not have the stats for yet, you also can't really fault some carries for not wanting to increase their run time because someone may not have the right stats because they've cut corners in places. especially when it comes to belphegor. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Enii said:

and in response to this while yes people who gear skip can ask for carries to do content they may not have the stats for yet, you also can't really fault some carries for not wanting to increase their run time because someone may not have the right stats because they've cut corners in places. especially when it comes to belphegor. 

It depends on the person - whether they wish to quickly clear the raid or not mind helping someone else as long as they got the right amount of carries of course.

But simply generalizing the small tcp and kicking anyone who's around that amount - then assuming they don't know much, is a different story.

All I'm trying to say is, I agree with what you stated. Gear skipping can definitely be a problem in the long run

Edited by Miia
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4 minutes ago, Miia said:

But simply generalizing the small tcp and kicking anyone who's around that amount - then assuming they don't know much, is a different story.

But like chi said "Most of the time" those who are way under the requirement of the raid very much go in blind without researching beforehand and therefore increase run time. I'm not against people going in blind but again you can't really fault some people for not having the patience to deal with that. 

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1 minute ago, Enii said:

But like chi said "Most of the time" those who are way under the requirement of the raid very much go in blind without researching beforehand and therefore increase run time. I'm not against people going in blind but again you can't really fault some people for not having the patience to deal with that. 

I Don't blame anyone that wants to run raid quickly - especially if you're spamming. I'm trying to refer to the comment Chiharu has made in her channel. If she could edit the comment and simply state specifically instead of: 18M, kick them out.

Just add something like: If you do not have enough carries &/or specified the amount of combat power, then kick them out. 

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3 minutes ago, Miia said:

Just add something like: If you do not have enough carries &/or specified the amount of combat power, then kick them out. 

but the minimum tcp requirement for belphegor is 18m tcp?

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2 minutes ago, Chiharu said:

image.png.09c6c4ee05969d9441a477cf507c2711.png

and also when we talking bout not having not much tcp i think chi will agree we talking bout people who are no where near close to 18m tcp obviously if you like 17m and you got the right gear you may be let into a spam group

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1 minute ago, Enii said:

but the minimum tcp requirement for belphegor is 18m tcp?

That's not what I'm saying. I carried a 9m we did fine -

That's your opinion alone. I wouldn't tell anyone to kick anybody out unless they're not comfortable with their TCP.

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5 minutes ago, Miia said:

That's not what I'm saying. I carried a 9m we did fine -

That's your opinion alone. I wouldn't tell anyone to kick anybody out unless they're not comfortable with their TCP.

I don't be getting people like the 9m you had in your raid. I stated my reasons as to why people should start kicking people out the raid if they're below the minimum tcp requirement. Again, I literally stated reasons, as to why. One of the notable reasons is #3. If you want me to add onto that, I'll add on the bunnies phases, regarding the shield around the cube. Yeah, you can damage that shield and get the cube faster. Say, you took that same 9m to the 30m raid. Would you say the same thing that you just said? Or would you still say that you would be fine. Think about it. The mini raid. 30m tcp requirement. Gomori. Bunny Phase. The cubes. Say you don't have enough damage with 4 people to break the shield and get the cube. Would you still say the same thing? Or let's say you were in my shoes, carrying people who did skip gear, they barely know anything about the game, you've been carrying all day, you get to Lovecraft and no one is hitting switches, Same people are consistently messing up the same phase over and over even though you've been explaining to people the bunny phase since we first got the content, people not freeing people from the lightning grab in core, and it start to bother you eventually because it's been happening all day. And those same people are some of the low tcps. Would you say the same thing? Not everyone want to deal with it every time the raid is up. Hell, these same people be trying to do the mini raid. Not everyone is going to want to deal with it. You may want to, you may have the patience, I've been nice about it for a long time before I started speaking up about it because it's starting to become a problem, and that's ok. That's you. I agree with that being your opinion too, but I'm not you. I probably do the raid more than you so that's how I know about most of the stuff that be happening. I said what I said in that screenshot because of personal experience. We all have a different experience regarding this current content, or any content. 

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4 minutes ago, Chiharu said:

I don't be getting people like the 9m you had in your raid. I stated my reasons as to why people should start kicking people out the raid if they're below the minimum tcp requirement. Again, I literally stated reasons, as to why. One of the notable reasons is #3. If you want me to add onto that, I'll add on the bunnies phases, regarding the shield around the cube. Yeah, you can damage that shield and get the cube faster. Say, you took that same 9m to the 30m raid. Would you say the same thing that you just said? Or would you still say that you would be fine. Think about it. The mini raid. 30m tcp requirement. Gomori. Bunny Phase. The cubes. Say you don't have enough damage with 4 people to break the shield and get the cube. Would you still say the same thing? Or let's say you were in my shoes, carrying people who did skip gear, they barely know anything about the game, you've been carrying all day, you get to Lovecraft and no one is hitting switches, Same people are consistently messing up the same phase over and over even though you've been explaining to people the bunny phase since we first got the content, people not freeing people from the lightning grab in core, and it start to bother you eventually because it's been happening all day. And those same people are some of the low tcps. Would you say the same thing? Not everyone want to deal with it every time the raid is up. Hell, these same people be trying to do the mini raid. Not everyone is going to want to deal with it. You may want to, you may have the patience, I've been nice about it for a long time before I started speaking up about it because it's starting to become a problem, and that's ok. That's you. I agree with that being your opinion too, but I'm not you. I probably do the raid more than you so that's how I know about most of the stuff that be happening. I said what I said in that screenshot because of personal experience. We all have a different experience regarding this current content, or any content. 

I believe she was only talking about MK Raid in general. As for MK Mini Raid we can all agree 30m is the requirement.

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2 minutes ago, Gangster said:

I believe she was only talking about MK Raid in general. As for MK Mini Raid we can all agree 30m is the requirement.

I was also talking about MK in general-

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On 5/19/2022 at 1:00 PM, BK2710 said:

Not big poblem imo, current endgame content is still easy, maybe if some content from busan onwards had 40m tcp variants for good rewards that highly rely on doing it properly it would matter.

i mean as i kinda pointed out the main problem is when players get to asmo and MK as they are more focused on everyone pulling their weight. 

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On 5/19/2022 at 8:00 AM, BK2710 said:

Not big poblem imo, current endgame content is still easy, maybe if some content from busan onwards had 40m tcp variants for good rewards that highly rely on doing it properly it would matter.

There most likely will be, however, the majority of this thread is about how people who skip gear be showing up to raid and expecting to get a carry 24/7 or to leech off of people and not everyone have time for that. 

If you were referring to Omega Knight and Gina, I can understand. If you were referring to Belphegor, that's been the majority of this thread's topic. How people who skip gear be showing up in Belphegor and fucking up the raid for everyone else.

This also happens in Asmodeus as well but we can talk about that later.

Naddic's got a thing for making content where if one person fuck up, everyone pays the price. That's one of the reasons why this thread came to be.

I'm giving you context just in case you didn't read everything but I do agree with the current endgame being somewhat easy since all you literally have to do is just learn mechanics and then you're straight.

Edited by Chiharu
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