Miia Posted October 30 Share Posted October 30 I want to clarify that I am not trying to start any fights here, since I noticed for some reason I'm giving this vibe to some people here. I just wish to get my point across - just like how the rest of you are doing here. Given this is a discussion thread, I will use it as it is intended to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiharu Posted October 30 Author Share Posted October 30 We got it, we just gon' let it die at this point before things get out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarus Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 15 hours ago, Chiharu said: We got it, we just gon' let it die at this point before things get out of hand. Before I lock this, I will be replying to certain comments, since they deserve answers in some sort of cordial manner. Also, @ViciouslyOptimistic, do not multiple post, as it is considered spam and will lead to a warning point. I've merged your comments into one. Quote Also, I don’t think it’s helpful to bring up anything about FOs’ egos. Instead, I’d just suggest letting everyone interpret information in their own way rather than calling it “misinformation.” People naturally have different perspectives and take things in differently. For instance, with the recent core updates, I chose Lantern for Levia because that felt right for me, even though others suggested otherwise. That decision came down to my own reasoning and what I felt worked best. I agree with this. The "critiques" people are trying to make gets lost when the insults pour in. FOs apparently having "egos", "spreading misinformation", etc. While I do not know if they do this or not, as I am not them, I highly doubt they intend to come off that way. We are meant to keep an unbiased perspective and hope we get an unbiased perspective in exchange, but usually that isn't the case. Quote People in general in our community, don't follow Channel Topics/Rules to begin with. Blatant spamming of things off topic in them and so forth. I've answered several people (as stated in this forum post) about the exact same issue, having them have the exact same outcome (That our forums by the way don't even address in a way they'd understand nor find). I understand that isn't the channel for it, however at the same time, off topics are everywhere and seeing as cc-questions doesn't get swamped ahh, it was better to address it there for ALL to see. No, I don't need nor want to have DMs with random folks, addressing it over and over again. That's quite pointless on my end, when the information was clear to see in the channel it was used in. Please refer to where I replied to Chiharu about this, since it's repeating a comment I've answered. Saying people don't follow rules is why there's moderators like me-- to enforce the rules. This is kind of a nothing statement. If you've answered the same question multiple times, maybe making a FAQ with the answer can be useful. Even the staff could create some if it would help the community. What questions would be listed is up to the community, though. That is something we can work together on. Quote There have been numerous times with the FO staff (again I shouldn't have to blatantly list whom they are), we all know who our FOs are. What they do (or lack thereof) and so forth. And seeing as I main certain agents I've seen talked about and witnessed quite the bit of mis-information being puked out over and over again. Or not fully addressed is concerning. As well as at times when questioned on "why to do this over that" and vice versa, egos will flair at times and get the topic at hand to spiral out of hand. I have seen messages erased when they were disproven and shown actual tastings and why one would use x, y, z in content and how to switch it up. (Meanwhile some trolling going on, while serious conversations are trying to be had.) Again, this needs clarification. You can't just say FOs have egos or spread misinformation without citing sources. Plus with what I said above, I highly doubt they intend to do so. Constantly seeing the FOs through a malicious lens is not going to help either the staff or the community understand things properly and will just lead to confusion. The FOs are human too, so yes, sometimes they can make mistakes or accidentally give wrong information. If they do, let them know without throwing a ton of accusatory remarks or insults. Quote The rulebreakers thing is more so what folks have seen and have taken notice of but of course not using the Rulebreakers thread to re-report them (Case in point, not everyone wants to use forums, nor have to do what myself and Chi are doing now. Trying to have a conversation and not just finger pointing.) But if I have to, I will point out one, if I am pressed to actually have to NAME one of them. (Cause clearly that report didn't finalize and was lifted with some unknown reasonings) If you feel someone has not been dealt with in accordance to the rules, report them on the forums and we will deal with them. I see zero Rulebreaker threads from you personally so I am unsure what "report" you're talking about. You're free to shoot me a private message to discuss further so I can look into it for you. Quote Again, if folks couldn't even follow the Channel Rules/Topics nor read #announcements and so forth, you can't sit there and tell me they could just (list shortcuts and ways to find the answer to the SAME asked question here) and expect that to be the answer to ALL. Not only that with said rules and such, it's harder to get a grasp on things or assist (safety etc, I get. Other things ehh...) We enforce rules whenever we are able. If a user does not wish to follow the rules, then they will be punished. I honestly have no idea what else you expect us to do regarding this. Everyone is different-- sometimes people will not read a thread and ask a question. It is our job as the staff to help them, and we do whenever we can. Quote Calm down, I know you're still worked up from cc general today. I know everyone won't agree with me. And I read your reply. Go take a deep breath and settle down. Forgive the frustration, however in so many of your posts you speak with this passive-aggressive tone, as if you are treating whoever you're speaking to like a child. Absolutely none of the responses you gave Miia needed to be said, as they say nothing and add nothing to the actual discussion at hand. While yes, I understand you want people to work together, you also cannot just say "let's work together!" and leave it at that-- working together requires listening to every single side of the discussion instead of brushing past it like this. VisciouslyOptimistic's post is quite large but I'm going to try and respond to important bits. However I want to point out that if you wish to have a proper discussion with proper constructive criticism? This is not the way to go about it. Half of this post is simply begging for someone to fight back with aggression with how it is worded. We cannot have a proper cordial discussion with wording like this. Quote no sane person's gonna pay 50 bucks to get a +1. That's a fucking official at that point, even if its cheaper here. Everybody abuses shit, that includes FOs. While this is an incredibly accusatory comment, if you do see a staff member abusing their position please report it to Harpy. Quote your excuse is to play on your own insecurity, and cope about the server losing moeny or some ohter shit. Because all you wanna do is make the bag and grab it while you can. You have to understand that a server doesn't stay live and active for free. There will always have to be a way to make money on a server, otherwise there wouldn't be one. It is simply not feasible, and it is incredibly rude to assume that staff are simply "milking" things or "making the bag while they still can". If there are issues with overpricing, then making a suggestion thread to discuss things with the staff does more than these kinds of comments. We do our best to keep a delicate balance of keeping the community happy and keeping the server afloat. Quote CC is straight up incompetent and cant do anything without fucking it up. A lotta the times Harpy forgets to mention changes in the patch notes, and you find out about it yourself. Harpy is one person. You cannot expect one person to remember every single minute detail, which is why she gets the staff to look over major patch threads to make sure everything is listed. Even so, we are human and make mistakes. Instead of claiming we're incompetent, calmly let us know we've missed listing a change and we will add it as soon as possible. I have noticed people mentioning we've missed things before and have gone back to add in the information myself when a patch thread comes out. Quote Or harpy says they did it, then you go ingame, its not there and was a blatant lie. Again, sometimes mistakes happen. This is a small team and things get missed. There is also the possibility of it working perfectly on test, only to break in a way we didn't expect on live, even though we tested something thoroughly. Nothing is perfect, and berating the staff instead of letting us know in a calm manner doesn't help. Quote If you need testers you can get plenty of volunteers from the cord who'll do it for free. its not rocket science. Make a public branch of the server and do access waves when you need feedback. Theres no point locking shit down to a few guys who're washed af and barely care to log in, mostly to hold top3 TCP, or flex their p2w war game score onto others. This is not as simple as you think it is. Opening the test server to volunteers can open the gates to abusive users and threaten the security of others. We have a small team because we have to keep things secure. Plus, the staff are not obligated to "hold top 3 TCP" or "flex their war game score". It is not a badge of honour or proof of status. The staff can still be incredibly knowledgable on the game without having to claim top spots. Quote Idk where this thread's gonna go to. My opinion is the new wargames are a p2w joke and the crafts should be for participation not locked down to the leaves that only whales will have, basically a rich get richer vibe. and the gacha groups have been a joke lately, having all popular and most played(mained) characters in the same group all over again. BP was better this time, but still dogshit. The event's good though. the lock on the silly Halloween cosmetic crafts is cringe as fuck. Youre literally pitying against people tryna craft silly stupid shit that costs 5 mil, and you put it once an account a day?? your July crafts that you promised to monitor are a meme. I bet not a single person gave a damn to craft 750mil 15 day wot, or 150mil 15 day angel cubes, or the scam box that you still haven't reduced the price of. Also, don't worry, nobody cared to craft the 10mil slot ticket either, because the prices are x10 of what they should be. If you have any suggestions on how to improve these experiences for everyone, do not hesitate to make a thread in the Suggestions & Feedback section. Quote and when I literally came to Misago, catching an RMT ring red handed, nothing happened to the rank1 J, and that RMT guy and his friends bc apparently you guys didn't care after all the exhaustive evidence I'd collected and provided over. Thats too much work apparently cuz its much easier to sit on your ass and milk the whales Your most recent rulebreakers thread was answered by Harpy and looked into, so I am unsure where this "exhaustive evidence" you have collected is. Any evidence you have would be greatly appreciated. Quote I'm possibly sorry for use of harsh language but im tired of wasting my energy to sugarcoat every comment or forum post because you guys are insufferable. Most of this isn't "harsh language", most of this is blatant flaming or passive-aggresive comments that can bait users into replying negatively. These kinds of words and statements do not help the discussion at hand and wash away any kind of constructive criticism that could have been given. Example: Quote you're just glazing over shit, admit it. We both know that. as somebody who literally did what you described, but much more, and got nothing outta it, I can tell you youre just keeping up appearances in here. people who use lantern and the whip are stupid. You are literally just insulting the user (in specific, Miia in this situation). None of this is helpful to the discussion. Quote People literally RMT in the open through the trading channel, nothing gets done about it. Again, if you see someone breaking our rules, report them in the Rulebreakers section. We check as much as we are able, however we do miss things now and then. We are human. Quote CC is gonna tell ya to go write on forums, just like when you try to call a company to get a job, and them telling you to leave an email with your resume in it. PepeLaugh People act like the forums are useless and not needed, but for things such as Rulebreakers, Bug Reports, etc. they are much easier to look through. Plus, the developers themselves can look into bugs here as they are not present in the Discord. Quote tell that to Dark who straight up came up with a bullshit 50 to 100 rate and everybody followed like a dumb sheep, or Misago who's been selling 5b amps because he felt like it. Definitely not FOs abusing their power to bench the market, and tip it in their favor, or or the fact that FOs can change their ingame name whenever they want to and purge old account names if they want that name, but CC wont even bother to change the login name of somebody who asked nicely about it Managing an economy is a community effort, so I slightly disagree with Miia's comment. If someone sees something selling at a certain price, they will usually either try to sell it for the same price or higher. Then, if they cannot sell the item, they bring the price lower. I would also like to point out that no, the FOs cannot "purge old account names if they want that name". If they wish to free a name, they go through the exact same process as everyone else in the Account Support section. FOs have no special powers on their player accounts, let alone any access to things a Community Manager or Developer does. This statement is false. Quote So, great outlook, totally see where you're going with this. I just need to add that even with that (again nothing wrong in a sense for alot who were prepared overtime versus others. That's MMO life for ya.) It was the sheer amount of content in all sense of the word, throw into the pot. After just barely touching bases with Loli Tiamat (Yes, you can counter-point the time/resources etc point and that's valid) but then without truly having enough time to adjust to the new Tiamat Chips (Again, this doesn't mess with everyone. I'm speaking about as a general sense of casual players and such) That they become overwhelmed (And they have. Again, results will vary.) I can definitely understand users being overwhelmed with content. I think it would be useful to discuss ways we can space out certain things (such as gachas) better to not "bleed the community dry" in the sense of everything new being added all at once, however you'd need to make a Suggestion thread with details regarding that so we can discuss it there. Quote This can be explained better if an actual conversation and more transparency could take place, taking accountability for things and working together on an end goal of sorts. Instead of "No, that's wrong. Look at this. That's trash." Leaving more questions than answers. Snarky as it may appear, there is a deeper meaning that like I said would require more than what is being shown in the open. Case in point. You're valid feeling it's snarky, even though it's from my lips and I know it wasn't meant to be that. That's perfectly fine, opinions and so forth will differ and that's how it will be. We have been doing our best to be as transparent as possible regarding any kind of discussion, but there is only so much information (on certain subjects) we can give out. We have explained multiple times why and still do our best to be as transparent as possible regardless. Also the "No, that's wrong. Look at this. That's trash." comment is moreso coming from the community right now than the staff from what I can see. Quote This isn't about policing. It does go back to one of the earlier things I've touched on. You can't ignore brainrot, ego nor mis-information when you care about getting the good details ins and outs of an agent out to the PUBLIC and not just in DMs to avoid headaches and misunderstandings. This is why there is bickering and trolling and what not to begin with (not fully, but in a sense.) A lot of "bickering and trolling" also comes with misunderstanding and the inability to communicate without starting a fight. If someone is not understanding the way you're explaining something, try things at a different angle. I, myself, have ADHD so the generic way of being taught usually does not work on me and leaves me frustrated and confused, as I get yelled at for being too slow or "too stupid" to understand something I know potentially is "easy" to understand. Compassion and understanding are keys to communication. You mentioning things such as you are not dismissing, in this case Miia's, opinions go a long way to keeping a discussion calm instead of turning it into an insult fest. Ironically, like this: Quote you dont know what you're talking about and your entire comment is a buncha water that goes on about a whole lotta nothing This gives nothing and only provides insults. It is not helpful to the discussion at hand and is dismissing any other opinion or perspective. Quote this is what i mean by balantant misinformation, you can read here "better debuff uptime" then purification and army awakened being shrugged off as "practicality is limited by debuffs" now the problematic part, ARMY awakening is a 25% crit damage buff purification is a 20% crit resist debuff standard version is a 10% crit resist debuff where did i find this information you ask ? suggested skill cube guide posted by nata a while ago validiated by violethime (aka fo dark) and jsk (aka kali) so you know you tell me if this is "preference" or misinformation. or when dark posted "yuri suggested skill points" and having v at lvl 1 while it scales with levels. he only modified recently but the thing is, why do you post wrong info then to correct later ? your word as a fo is a lot more credible than you and i or anyone or even on par with top rankers cause well "he is fo he must know what he talking about", to post false information to correct it later. is like building a faulty building and fix it after it falls so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The section is listed as "Suggested Awakenings", which means it is not set in stone. As others have stated, people can choose which path they wish to go with and are not locked to one path. Dark seems to simply just be giving suggestions that have been formed by their own testing and opinions on the subject. If this is in the Official Guides section, it could be useful to go into more depth regarding each, which can be easily done by making a Suggestion thread or talking to Dark themselves. I highly doubt they're trying to say their word is the bible and must be followed. Everything you've mentioned from Dark is quoted with "suggestions", and you even said he changed his post later on, which means information can change and be clarified. It is not "posting false information to correct it later", it is simply giving a suggestion, getting other people's opinions on it, and modifying it to help more people more clearly. Quote Please keep in mind that just because someone holds an "FO" title doesn’t mean they’ll have all the information perfectly accurate across the board. A title is just a title; it doesn’t guarantee 100% accuracy - they’re only human, after all. I can’t really comment on the right or wrong of character skills, as that’s based on each person’s perspective, and I don’t play that character myself. Also, doesn't their war game scores kinda says otherwise? I think that's pretty valid to show that they know what they're talking about. I agree with this. FOs are not machines that give out perfect and accurate information that must be listened to at all costs. They are humans that have their own perspectives and opinions on things with the knowledge they have gained throughout years of playing this game. It is not a "one size fits all" thing when giving helpful advice. It is "advice", after all. Quote As I mentioned, it’s best to either address the person directly if you think they’re misinformed or simply create your own guides. Often, those who say, “Whales will do this, whales will do that” are also the ones spending heavily, even if they’re unhappy with the server’s current state. If more people spoke up instead of leaving it to a small group, there would be more perspectives to draw from, and it wouldn’t fall to just a few voices to determine what’s “correct.” Basically this. Quote they are field officers, they have to be held in a much higher standard than guide makers. it would take tremendous amount of effort to put something that counteract it This kind of mindset prevents any proper change from occuring. It does not take a "tremendous amount of effort" to let a FO know they might have explained something wrong or worded it a bit weirdly, or even if they are lacking some information you believe may be critical for someone. Just message them and let them know kindly instead of insulting them and throwing accusations of "misinformation". They won't bite. Quote as to "small people voicing while rest are silent" if u remember last december, ppl spoke up, devs slammered them, then give them what they wanted halfassed, for pity excuse of "balance" or "abuse" or "multi-accounting" or insert any excuse they come up with. From my perspective we didn't "slam" them. We answered each person's concerns as best and we were able and explained our own process if something was unable to change at the time, and made sure to do our best to keep the community informed and the discussion open. The only people potentially "slammed" were people making rude comments that weren't helpful to the issue at hand. So here I am, at the end of the responses. I hope this shows we don't want concerns from community members to "die". We are doing our best to listen to the community, however it can be incredibly difficult when we're pelted constantly with scruitiny, insults and accusations. I also apologize for not being able to respond to every single topic introduced, as some sections I do not have enough knowledge on to give my opinion on the matter. I'd rather not say something that turns out to be wrong and confuse the community, I hope you will understand. I will be locking this thread up as requested. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpy Posted October 31 Share Posted October 31 I'm going to be blunt here, more so than I probably should be but I have had fucking enough for this clear harassment towards my staff. This is the second thread that has spiraled into shitting on my staff and there will be no more. Any other threads that even have a hint or a notion of trying to harass/be passive-aggressive/flame my staff will be hidden. Constructive critism is one thing, but considering I've seen what goes on in certain private discords, I know for a fact this is not that. The whole idea of, "I don't care if they're doing their job or not - I just want them out" mentality and then to come here and take whatever chance you can to harass and hound them for doing their jobs. Yeah, you're right, you don't know what my staff do and how much of a help they are to Soma and myself. Would you like them to stream their work every single day so you can scrutinize what goes on so it can meet your "satisfaction"? Oh my god! There were bugs in this patch! We didn't "rush" WoT as some of you claim to think. I'm sorry that I, yes I, forgot to test it fully. For forgetting to check the achievement and the wardrobe side of it. For playing the game with no sounds and missing some of the voice files for the costume. Bugs that will clearly be fixed now that we have been made aware of them when we next patch - which will most likely be Monday. "They're rushing and it shows because I have 2 bug threads from end of September to October" - Yeah, because we patched. Not every patch will be completely bug free, and just because there's bugs does not mean we're "rushing" anything. We're human; we miss things. Even if you all were in this position as well, YOU would miss things too. To think otherwise is naive and foolish. Those that jumped onto this thread (not all of course, but those that know, know who I'm referring to) have always been so hellbent to try and pull the staff down because of some hatred they have towards the FOs; how they just want them gone because they dislike them so much. But who would replace them? Those that now seek to cause all this drama towards others? Those that seem to thrive on this hatred towards others and want to immediately jump and hound them even more so? No, absolutely not. My staff may not be perfect, but I don't expect them to be perfect. I expect them to try their best and I appreciate them when they can give me that. I will hold my hands up and say that I, too, am not perfect. I make mistakes, I make errors - I don't try to kid myself to think I'm the best at everything I do. But, if you have legitimate concerns about a staff member, then you can come to me directly, in private DMs, with your screenshots/evidence, whatever. These threads are NOT the way to do it and only serve to belittle any point you hope to make against them. So at this point, I'm going to be rambling, but I'm done. Any threads that even have a hint of devolving into an excuse to harass my staff will be closed. I'll repeat what I said earlier before those that want to talk shit behind closed doors tries to twist what I say: Constructive critism is one thing, but considering I've seen what goes on in certain private discords, I know for a fact this was not that. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts